Curse

Turbo Wombat · Sep 28, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Ok, I realize that this is a semi-rant, but it has some fact and logic mixed in with it, so please bare with me here.

How is it that classes (primarily mesmer) controlled by AI can interrupt 1/4 second cast spells with skills that take 1/4 of a second to activate as well? As we all can infer by playing through the game, AI-driven NPCs will only try to interrupt skills while they are activating. We know this because as we watch enemy mobs in combat, they will never randomly spam interrupts in hopes of randomly catching a skill (Zen Interrupting). So, how can Wardens of the Spirit CoF my Devine Intervention, Storm Kin Power Drain my Taste of Death, Wind Riders CoF my Wastrel's Worry and Jade Brotherhood Mesmers Power Return my Spirit Bond? (Yes, these have all happened to me) Whether or not this has to do with some recent updates or just bad luck, I don't know but it has seemed to be happening quite often to me recently.

Logically, if I cast Protective Spirit and an enemy casts their interrupt a millisecond later in response to me using a skill, Prot. Spirit should still finish casting one millisecond before the interrupt lands. Now with this in mind, how is it possible for the AI to interrupt a spell with the same cast time as the interrupt without cheating?

At this point, it almost seems like ANet is enforcing some strange double-standard. Back when everyone was complaining about the AoE nerf, the good people who made Guild Wars said it was to cause the enemies to act more human-like in an attempt to make the game more challenging (though, I've never come across a human player who kited around AoEs in such a retarded fashion). If their goal is to make the AI more human-like, why is it that they programmed in the reflexes of a telepath jacked-up on methamphetamines? Last I checked, this wasn't the standard for humanity.

While it is amusing to see Eyrs Vasburg CoF a Reversal of Fortune, I can easily go the rest of my days without again witnessing it in order for the AI to actually work within the confines of the game structure. As things stand now, the AI's reaction speed far surpasses any human ability and can only add to unneeded stress when trying to complete some quests and mission that are already plenty frustrating as-is.

To ANet - Do you have any comment on this or any plans to fix it?

To everyone else - Feel free to add your own well grounded opinions/insights about the topic if you feel the need.

ThunderStruck · Sep 28, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I know what you mean, I have no problem with them interrupting a 3/4 sec spell, but yeah, the 1/4 sec spells should be safe...

Darth Marth · Sep 28, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I agree. I still can't really get 3/4-second stuff, and 1-second skills take focus. ANet needs to lengthen AI reaction time to make it consistent with human behavior. (Ideally the skill level of the average player who would be facing the enemies; IE level 12 enemies could have longer times than enemies in the Underworld) But all the reaction times should be realistic for humans.

Alberic · Sep 28, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

That makes perfect sense to me. Logically, it would mean that the enemy began casting their interrupt before you began casting your 1/4 second spell, which really just shouldn't happen.

Mr Jazzy · Sep 28, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

umm..
mesmer enemies have the attribute called "fast casting"

logically, their spells do not take 1/4 second to cast, it takes around 1/8 second to cast.

lightblade · Sep 28, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Wombat

...
As we all can infer by playing through the game, AI-driven NPCs will only try to interrupt skills while they are activating.
...
...
...
Logically, if I cast Protective Spirit and an enemy casts their interrupt a millisecond later in response to me using a skill, Prot. Spirit should still finish casting one millisecond before the interrupt lands. Now with this in mind, how is it possible for the AI to interrupt a spell with the same cast time as the interrupt without cheating?
...

Here's how you get interrupted with your 1/4 cast spells:

1. You first cast a 1/4 cast spell
2. AI attempt to interrupt first spell;
3. You cast second 1/4 cast spell immediately after the first one; or queued spell
4. AI failed to interrupt first spell and interrupted the second spell.

So...don't cast your spells continuously

tomcruisejr · Sep 28, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Wombat

How is it that classes (primarily mesmer) controlled by AI can interrupt 1/4 second cast spells with skills that take 1/4 of a second to activate as well?

the npc mesmer with 0 fast cast used its interrupt 1/8 second before you used the 1/4 second spell

npc is leet

Lord Dobo · Sep 28, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

One thing I think you are overlooking is the Fast Cast primary attribute that will speed up the spell used by a mesmer to interrupt your abilites. I know that I rely on that in order to make sure I can get a few interrupts off because I AM human and cannot myself intterupt any of the really fast spells without resorting to "thinking" like the npc in order to see their next move.

I totally agree though, it's ridiculous how nearly perfect they are on the draw. Thank the gods they are still just A.I. though. What I do to try to get around my spells being intterupted, other than some glyphs and such (I don't like to take up the slot), is to throw out some sacrifice spells that the computer cannot anticipate being a waste, or to try and approach the combat in a second wave. Approaching the combat late generally keeps the target on the closer threats to the npc. At least that is what I had found during the past year and a half.

You are screwed if you face all mesmers or rangers, but you can rely on the rest of your team to take out that type of mob with no problem. Good Luck.

EDIT: Lol, 6 posts in the time it took me to write this. But yes, the fast casting is what you are overlooking, super npc or no.

tomcruisejr · Sep 28, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

right fast casting ftw

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Jazzy

umm..
mesmer enemies have the attribute called "fast casting"

logically, their spells do not take 1/4 second to cast, it takes around 1/8 second to cast.

masteroflife · Sep 28, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Fastcasting has nothing to do with it. once out of six or so runs i would have grenth's balance interupted with disrupting blow. so how can a warrior using a 1/2 sec interupt and interupt a 1/4 sec skill?

SerenitySilverstar · Sep 28, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Jazzy

umm..
mesmer enemies have the attribute called "fast casting"

logically, their spells do not take 1/4 second to cast, it takes around 1/8 second to cast.

So logically, a level 20 human-played mesmer could have a FC of up to 16, while a level 22-28 monster mesmer could have possibly 18-20+ FC? That does make sense, but as the OP opines, this still doesn't take into account the abnormally fast reaction time on activating the skill from a monster.

I know in some instances a CoF may have been cast on another player/hench and affected my casting at the same time, but again that doesn't explain other times when it's been used on me directly in wickedly fast fashion.

Zinger314 · Sep 28, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Make a Mesmer Hero. Payback.

tomcruisejr · Sep 28, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by masteroflife

Fastcasting has nothing to do with it. once out of six or so runs i would have grenth's balance interupted with disrupting blow. so how can a warrior using a 1/2 sec interupt and interupt a 1/4 sec skill?

the only scenario where distracting blow wont ever interrupt grenths is when they are activated at the same exact time . other wise its possible.

akh · Sep 28, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

my 1/4 protective spirit has been interrupted by avicaras 1/2 savage slash

my theory is that AI engine checks when your enchantments end their duration (or skills/spells are getting recharged) and start spam interrupting skills/spells.

Evilsod · Sep 28, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

The mesmers usually interrupt fairly accuratly thanks to fast casting...

The warriors however piss me off. Savage Slash interrupts EVERYTHING (Kurzick NPCs are so much better than Luxons...) be it 5s or 1/4s cast.

I remember doing Gyala a few weeks back and had 3 warriors after me... had my RoF interrupted by a Power Spike at less than 0.05s... consequently i fell over and proceeded to be 'raped' by 3 warriors. When they interrupt things when they needed to cast even before you started then you begin to think the AI is a little bit screwed up and is obviously picking up on your requests to activate skills rather than the activation itself...

Lord Dobo · Sep 28, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by akh

my 1/4 protective spirit has been interrupted by avicaras 1/2 savage slash

my theory is that AI engine checks when your enchantments end their duration (or skills/spells are getting recharged) and start spam interrupting skills/spells.

A very wise answer. I was about to just say that they try to interrupt at "smart" times, just as humans try to do, but this answer above give a mechanic on how it's done.

EDIT: To not double post.

The warriors are likely being "smart" just as humans try to be by activating intterupts when pc's seem to be in dire need of getting off a skill. Like when you are knocked down and are low on health, you panic and try to throw off spells to save your ass, they jump on you in droves thinking that the logical next step is a quick reaction spell. Bam, the action they took right before you turns up looking like an action they took after you activate a skill.

Former Ruling · Sep 28, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Also note that they lack that "millisecond" that you refered to in your original post. They are A.I., They can be perfect, they don't have human reaction time.

It isnt Fast Casting either, 7 times out of ten, they had an interupt on the queue, and it missed the actual spell it was targeting and hits your next. This is most obvious with Trolls because of how dumbly slow their interupt is, but it applys to all interupts.

Like you cast something, and they have an interupt in their queue to take it, but they are attacking or using some other spell, so have to wait to pull it off, and by the time they do you are casting something else and it hits that instead.

The other 3 out of 10 times is because NPCs are smarter interupters than humans will ever be. They have patterns programed into their code that dictates their reaction to your spell usage. They know if your 4sec recharge PRot spirit just got interupted you will try to activate it again in 4 secs, etc.

Turbo Wombat · Sep 28, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightbalde

Here's how you get interrupted with your 1/4 cast spells:

1. You first cast a 1/4 cast spell
2. AI attempt to interrupt first spell;
3. You cast second 1/4 cast spell immediately after the first one; or queued spell
4. AI failed to interrupt first spell and interrupted the second spell.

So...don't cast your spells continuously

Yes, I have known about the problem with chaining skills together for a long time and have avoided doing it since I first figured out what was going on.

Ok, I do see how fastcasting can have something do do with it and with 16 in fastcasting, a 1/4 second spell can cast in 1/8 of a second. This still brings me back to my double-standard agrument, though. No human can recognize that a skill is being preformed, select the right skill, and press the button all within 1/8 of a second. On top of that, I doubt that every Mesmer mob has 16 in fastcasting, which gives them even less time to react. If ANet has said in the past that they are trying to make the mob AI as realistic as possible, 1/4 second skills shouldn't be able to be interrupted by anything but a random CoF focused on a nearby ally or by missing one cast and hitting the next in a chain.

Completely irrelevent to fastcasting, I've had Jade Brotherhood Mesmers interrupt my lead (aka first) 1/4 second spell in a chain with Signet of Disruption as well. Now since we all know the fastcasting attribute only effects spells, I have to stand by my opinion that the AIs are all telepathic cokeheads.

Matsumi · Sep 28, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

They seem jacked up on any interrupt they use. But I agree, it's like they're using claude/eve's telepathic ability to know when to interrupt you. I've fooled them before with skills that can't be interrupted, and they bombard me with interrupts afterwards. Nothing like hitting a skill, and seeing 3 savage shots, a CoF, and a devastating hammer hit you after activating a skill. Isn't this kind of cheating though? I mean, I don't want them to be dumb, but this is kind of jacked.

I noticed this interrupt heavy update quite some time ago, but it's still annoying as ever in some places. One thing I also noticed, is that they start attacking and using skills before troll inguent or heal signet is done activating.

ateddybear · Sep 28, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

It's especially crazy (this was before factions) when Aaxtes interrupt through PS and HB through Bonetti's